One of the key questions we are always asking industry experts, be it in our reporting or at our conferences, is what makes for effective media? Is it all about excellent creative? Is it about perfect placement? Or is it, in the words of Succession character Kendall Roy, all simply about harvesting eyeballs?

Mike Follett, managing director at Lumen Research and a regular columnist for The Media Leader, is back on the podcast to discuss the key factors that make media effective, and where attention fits within the conversation. He is joined by The Media Leader editor Omar Oakes and reporter and host Jack Benjamin.

On the broad topic of effectiveness, Follett said the industry needs to admit what it does and doesn't know about the way media and advertising works.

“We assume that we know absolutely how these things work, and we have some numbers to back us up here," he said. "But in all honestly, we don’t. That’s the real truth. We don’t have the complete picture of how this stuff works. And I think admitting that is the smart thing to do, and pretending that we do have a 100% picture of the world, that’s crazy.”

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This episode was edited by our production partner Trisonic.

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